Role play, leveling, and adventuring.

Recently, it has been stated by some DMs that there has been too much powerleveling and adventuring on this server. It has also come to my attention that certain DMs think that a character should only go to one dungeon per RL day. Now, I am well aware that this is an RP server and characters should not be running about, amok, hitting every cavern, dungeon, and lair imaginable just to get Xp and as much treasure as possible. But, I also think that the level of wonderful role play is being often either overlooked, unduly criticized, or simply not witnessed by the DMs.

There have been a couple plots recently, involving little to no DM interaction, that resulted in no XP or loot of any significance, and yet the players involved dedicated many, many RL hours to advancing the story line(s). Yes, often the same characters are logged in, and yet, often, these characters ARE in town, role playing and developing plots and their characters' personalities, etc...

Seriously, the role play is quite often excellent, entertaining, and done with no more reward than the sheer joy and fun of doing it. That is ~part~ of the point of the game, correct? The other part of the game (stress: "game") is adventuring and having fun looking for monsters to fight, loot, and yes, for XP. If players are often on, and often adventuring, they will gain levels. If they NEVER RP, or really powerlevel at an absurd rate, then they should be reprimanded. But, if they RP, participate in plots, talk with other, new, chars, etc... then who cares what they do when they go out into the wilds, and how often they adventure?

I guess what I am saying is that, with the small player base, tight knit group of players who are on often, and the lack of DM participation on a regular basis, I am somewhat flummoxed when DMs come on and just immediately begin attempting to smite players for adventuring and scolding them via tells for having fun, especially if they are not breaking any stated rules or abusing any exploits or acting out of character.

Is it really a rule that we should only visit one dungeon per RL day? Is it really that big of a deal if characters like to go treasure hunting? I also wonder if DMs could participate more in role play... e.g., commandeering NPCs and have them interact with players, advancing plots or just making more conversation and surprises, rather than just smite? How fun would it be if an ogre started pleading for his life as a group of adventurers were about to slay it, and the characters had to figure out what to do with it? Or, if some crazy mage was following a party in a cave, and rather than smiting them, giving them riddles or playing non-deadly mind games with them? The possibilities are infinite. I know Dms are busy folks in RL, but I am so so so serious and being truthful that I think they are missing a lot of the good RP that the characters on DD are engaging.

I am not getting into specifics here, and I am sorta bracing myself for a flame thread, but that is not my intention. As I have said before, on another thread, I have very little to complain about on DD, but it seems that the DM team is less than pleased with a portion of the player base. A good dialogue may clear things up, and lead the server in a good direction.

I'll address some of these as best as I can.

First, roleplaying a monster...we've tried. Numerous times. Unless the players KNOW its being rp'd, they swing first and talk later. I'd comment to this except lets be honest...the AI doesn't give the time.

As far as one adventure per day. I spoke to a couple of players earlier about this. No, there is no RULE about this. However, if one has a harrowing near death adventure, would ANYONE please tell me the sense it makes to go out for another one a couple of hours later. Whatever happened to celebrating over an ale after an adventure. Taking the time to talk about it.

What bothered me to the point where I spoke is the fact that almost every time I log in, the same people are in the same places. Going somewhere where they know the outcome. And the recently rescinded 5 level rule? Was hardly enforced. And so now everyone is within the same levels. Oh joy.

As far as no DM interaction...I can only speak for myself and say I've tried. And when I do, I get bitched at because I expect people to actually roleplay their characters correctly or things get too tough. No, this is not to slight anyone in specific, it's just something I've noticed. At one point, Sil (just an example dude, we've cleared this all up) told me in a tell to fuck off because I said his character couldn't do what he did and that it was metagaming.

I guess what is frustrating to some of us on the staff is that there seems to be little thought to character growth for some. Only gaining as much power as possible. The loot tables are severely out of wack to the point that almost everyone can find a +5 weapon. And no one seems to think there's anything wrong with it. And yet, people run for the hills the moment something they didn't expect happens. (not Drakur of course, he has an int of 3 (yes, thats an attempt at levity))

I guess my point is, whats the point? If all folks want is to get levels and gear, then by all means, go ahead. I won't say word one about it again. I also won't waste my time trying to think up interesting plot hooks either because the two don't go hand in hand. I'll be a good little DM and just hand out XP whenever someone says "Hi" because that's sometimes all I see for RP. But then again, sometimes people just walk by others without so much as a nod of the head.

I'm sorry, I'm frustrated. This is not intended to slight or slam anyone in the slightest. But if I can't question why people are superhuman and going from one extreme trek to the other without so much as a breather then I don't get what I'm supposed to do.

whodatis? wrote:

I'll address some of these as best as I can.

First, roleplaying a monster...we've tried. Numerous times. Unless the players KNOW its being rp'd, they swing first and talk later. I'd comment to this except lets be honest...the AI doesn't give the time.

As far as one adventure per day. I spoke to a couple of players earlier about this. No, there is no RULE about this. However, if one has a harrowing near death adventure, would ANYONE please tell me the sense it makes to go out for another one a couple of hours later. Whatever happened to celebrating over an ale after an adventure. Taking the time to talk about it.

What bothered me to the point where I spoke is the fact that almost every time I log in, the same people are in the same places. Going somewhere where they know the outcome. And the recently rescinded 5 level rule? Was hardly enforced. And so now everyone is within the same levels. Oh joy.

As far as no DM interaction...I can only speak for myself and say I've tried. And when I do, I get bitched at because I expect people to actually roleplay their characters correctly or things get too tough. No, this is not to slight anyone in specific, it's just something I've noticed. At one point, Sil (just an example dude, we've cleared this all up) told me in a tell to fuck off because I said his character couldn't do what he did and that it was metagaming.

I guess what is frustrating to some of us on the staff is that there seems to be little thought to character growth for some. Only gaining as much power as possible. The loot tables are severely out of wack to the point that almost everyone can find a +5 weapon. And no one seems to think there's anything wrong with it. And yet, people run for the hills the moment something they didn't expect happens. (not Drakur of course, he has an int of 3 (yes, thats an attempt at levity))

I guess my point is, whats the point? If all folks want is to get levels and gear, then by all means, go ahead. I won't say word one about it again. I also won't waste my time trying to think up interesting plot hooks either because the two don't go hand in hand. I'll be a good little DM and just hand out XP whenever someone says "Hi" because that's sometimes all I see for RP. But then again, sometimes people just walk by others without so much as a nod of the head.

I'm sorry, I'm frustrated. This is not intended to slight or slam anyone in the slightest. But if I can't question why people are superhuman and going from one extreme trek to the other without so much as a breather then I don't get what I'm supposed to do.

I have a hard time quibbling with anything you say here. I think my main point was that I wish Dms were around more, and when they were they made their presence known in ways other than nerfed monsters and/or smiting. I also want to reiterate that I witness players resting, talking, bathing, eating, drinking, celebrating, and otherwise RPing their exploits and defeats quite often.


I also understand the difficulties with commandeering a monster in combat. I have never DMed, so I have no idea how it works, but it was just an idea. I still think it could be done, and might be a hoot. But again, the limitations of the AI makes total sense to me. Just an idea on my part.

I think the loot tables are a BIT high, by the way. Not out of control, but just a bit high. That said, Jimmie, my highest level char, has never found anything above +3 on his own, and rarely sees anything in the loot other folks in his party lay out that are +5 or above.

I think a lot of this has to do with the small player base, and the fact that the admins and DMs actually have lives and have less time than some of us to dedicate to the server. BUT, I will still defend most of the players in that I witness wonderful RP on a daily basis that is not witnessed by DMs.

I wish you and the other DMs would continue to interact with players via monsters or NPCs, and just give those of us who are asses and poor Rpers a bit more time to get it. Patience is key, I guess. I have RPed with you when you played NPCs and otherwise, and you are great at it. I wish you would do it more. It's so fun!

Again... I love this server, and have LITTLE to complain about. It's just a game, remember. And we all have frustrations. I started this thread to yap about them and hopefully hash them out.

DM's scolding players in tells? Scolding people is not precisely the way to entertain people you know. Seriously, this is a major issue and I hope the DM(s) involved will take this to heart.
As far as interaction goes, I've been running two events last week, with RP exp involved, NPC interaction and so on.

It's summer time and that means less time to sit and hang at the computer and more time with the family. That's the way it is. RL comes before a game. I usually log in for a couple of hours late at night though, to catch up with people.

As far as possessing monsters, whodatis is right.Too often are the creatures being blasted to hell before any interaction can take place, making the creature die while possessed, giving no exp, thus making people nag why they didn't get any exp. No fun for anyone.

About visiting dungeons, caves and so forth... Back in dolynick's Daggerdale, the rule to visit any given dungeon once per 24 hours, were invented so that people didn't go on a looting spree. This was before you could loot only once per server reset. The roleplaying reason was that there was no use in going back to an area that you just had cleared of monsters. The monsters would need time to grow in numbers. This is still the case - one visit per reset to any given dungeon.

Just one more thing - DM's are not responsible for players having fun. They can add a good deal of fun, but they're not responsible for players fun.

Snottling wrote:

DM's are not responsible for players having fun. They can add a good deal of fun, but they're not responsible for players fun.

Ok now things are getting complicated...You are 100% correct that a dm is not responsible for a player having fun, but isnt that unspoken purpose of a dm's very existance is to ensure that players enjoy themselves enough to not leave the server? sigh we have all allowed ourselves to be dragged into the demon of nwn server political games. This must be the simplest point i have ever made, down to the fabric of the game there is but one fact: people build and run servers so that they can enjoy themselves with others. they assighn dms to ensure that people are interested enough to stick around. perhaps if the dms are more attentive to the server's problems than the player's, maybe you have been putting the wrong people in positions of power.

I too have been a bit frustrated of late when I log in to see the players at the same places on a daily basis.As a long time experienced p-n-p player, besides the whole RP interaction, the meat and potatoes of the game when adventuring was EXPLORATION.I personally feel that if there is a chance of death by going to a certain area that pc's will not even attempt it.Adventurers by term are people who seek out adventure.How adventurous is to go kill the same fire giants every day when you know for a fact that there is no real challenge or possibility of being defeated?I guess little to no risk with a very high reward is adventurous.Mind you a trip now and then to areas visited before is well and good.I'd just like to see more actual adventuring via exploration going on instead of running a gauntlet of high reward safety net areas.Sorry I've not been around much but like Snottling said it is summertime and I have kids and we do stuff.That being said I do pop on as frequently as possible to hang out and see what's going on.Right now, plot wise I don't have the time to run any.Hopefully in the near future that will change.

As for smiting? I've not witnessed any of that.I HAVE SEEN DM's and participated in throwing danger in the paths of pc's to make something that they know is easily achievable into something that is potentially deadly.But as who said, everytime we engage in that type of behavior the players go over our heads to complain so why bother?That was another reason I decided to be on a summer hiatus.What good is it to be a DM only to have your ability to do so diminshed by players who fear the unknown or who fear being honestly challenged to the point that death is a real possibility.In my opinion if you fear death you should retire your adventuring shoes because death and adventure go hand in hand.It's part of the fabric that makes up the job.Now it is not our purpose to outright kill pc's.But when you go by CR in the pallette and you toss something in that should be formidable but due to equipment it is easily obliterated the creatures need to be scaled up to provide a neccessary challenge.

Aperson: The servers problems are also well within the domain of the staff as well as the players problems.On a server that uses the ToD system not only are we "assigned to ensure that people stay interested enough to stick around" we are also here to ensure proper RP standards are upheld and to help the server maintain a balance.DM's are not SLAVES of the pc's.And we are not obligated by any means to always interact.There are many other things and services we are here to provide other than being court jesters for the king(s) i.e. player(s)

I've never been to the same dungeon more than once a reset, so I don't know much of what you mean. I, personally, tend to enjoy exploration- Val is always wandering to test the limits. (Recently all he could kill on his own was the raiders, but before he managed to get all the way up the mountain to the salamander monks, where he died. ) Some of us don't have the best loot, either, despite how the tables might be 'overbalanced'- his best gear I had to buy from people. Either way, the RP we have is outstanding, DM activity or no. However, it's always fun just to have that little bit of interaction, be it a monster running scared, an NPC cursing you for running over his flowers, or some crazy woman harassing an adventurer, complaining that they got her with child. (I've seen the last before, it was freaking hilarious.)

*makes a mental note of Val's former girlfriend and nods* right, right...abandoned child.

Snottling: I TOTALLY understand the fact that it is summer and family and other RL matters come before the game. I actually had intended to say something like in my OP or my firsts response, but I had a brain fart and forgot.

Tearing the Weave: Perhaps I should not have said "smiting" because it IS a blast when DMs drop monsters on a party that are a complete surprise. But, and I am not naming names, the incident in question which provoked my OP was in an area that my character (Jimmie Lotts) had never been before. When odd creatures began to appear and our party started struggling more than we had (one person fell, but was raised) we were told by the DM that we heard noises and casting sounds coming from down a passage. It was agreed that Jimmie should scout. Dangerous? Sure! Risk of death? Of course... . but he did it. As he walked I (he) noticed nothing out of the ordinary, so I sent a tell to the DM asking if he heard or saw anything. The DM was getting lots of messages so it took him a while to respond. Jimmie waited a bit, scouted another passage and returned to the group. As he walked back the DM said, via tell, "If I had been watching you I would have blown you to pieces." As I said, Jimmie had never been to that area before, ever. I also RP Jimmie's fears and anxieties while adventuring quite a bit, as the players with whom I explore can attest. I was a bit taken aback when I received that message, and that prompted my OP. Was Jimmie, or his party, "smited"? No. I should have chosen my words better.


As for Dms being "responsible for players having fun": I agree that they are not. In no way was I saying that they should be slaves or court jesters for the kings/players. BUT, I have heard from a couple people that a DM has tarnished the fun from time to time. It has never happened to me, and I would love to hear from them on this thread in order to hash things out in a civil manner. I have had DMs get on me for the way I played my character, and I have tried to take their advice/corrections to heart. Example: When Jimmie was a low level he was playing hit-and-run with a small group of ogres. He threw some stones at them, ran around a corner, hid, waited for one to come, and did the ole sneak attack, took it down one-on-one, then did it over again. He never engaged the whole group at once. Snottling was watching and told me that that was abuse, as it was pretty unrealistic that the ogres would not ALL come rushing at me. I agreed, and stopped doing such things. He did not smite me, ruin my fun, or send down eight elite ogre beserkers to mash Jimmie... he simply informed me that I should try other tactics and NOT abuse the AI. Thus, I have to play Jimmie differently in the wilds, or not solo with such audacity. I think that is splendid DM interaction. I wonder if other players have similar experiences, and have interpreted it differently?


Death and Reaper: I was told, second hand, that a DM said players should not go to more than one dungeon per day, not the same dungeon. I think that issue has been cleared up here. I also concur with what you say regarding loot and items, as Jimmie's best stuff has either been bought, traded for, or obtained when others are looting. And your final comment concerning fun interactions with DMs and NPC is precisely what I am talking about, but I hope the staff won't take that as a plea for entertainment or "court jestering." It is not. Just as Dms like to mix up the monsters in a familiar area, based on Cr, so to do players like to see things mixed up from time to time with NPCs in town or elsewhere. It can be a hoot, scary, hilarious, and yes, FUN!


I want to reiterate, as I know I probably irked some of the staff here... this was not meant to be a bitch-fest, flame thread. I want to know where the DMs are coming from in these matters, and thought it would help to get player input as well. Thus far, I am understanding much, much better, and will play and RP accordingly.

Thanks for the nice dialogue so far, all.

Yes, I, speaking only for myself find threads such as these to be informative and insightful.I in no way meant to respond as if being attacked other than Aperson's perspective seemed a bit of a shot but other than that I only wished to give insight to what and how I perceive things at times.I've made mistakes concerning the CR of creatures on here a couple of times and have promptly apologized and corrected my mistakes.I do not try and ruin the fun for anyone I just like to see the pc's challenged after watching them over and over again do things that they know hold no death defying moments for them.That being said I hope this thread remains open to more thoughts and interpretations as we can try and forge a better understanding and relationship amongst ourselves.

whodatis? wrote:

*makes a mental note of Val's former girlfriend and nods* right, right...abandoned child.

Ouch. I witnessed this one in the main square of a town on EoE, it wasn't actually happening to me. Still was the funniest damn thing I've seen, short of Grogg's fart in the tunnel before everyone else had to go down. (It was that big Aurilite event in v1.)

*sigh* i suppose i talk to potheads too often...i apoligise for putting it that way, "just for entertainment" is a far cry from what i was intending to say and i failed. until i started rambling i was hoping to say more towards that the arguments between staff and players are getting far too complicated, irritations arise, and people stop talking. this is the 30(?)th server ive played at and it always ends the same, people get sick of arguing...but i degress. the overtone here is SORRY to anyone i offended in the wee hours of the morning. ill try being really quiet again...however one thing i stand by is that its undeniable that no matter how right you are, no matter how fair, accurate, or good, if you piss everyone off its over. please be carefull everyone (not excluding me)!