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 My Views On The Current DD

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operationblade
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PostSubject: My Views On The Current DD   Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:10 pm

Ok before anyone reads this i want to make this absolutely clear. This is not a whining post AND this is not directed too anyone personally, these are my own views and thoughts about the current server and i do not want to offend anyone nor disrespect anyone. Please feel free to debate all i say of course and please once again this is not towards ANYONE personally these are my views.

Ok so ive been back playing NWN and DD in general for the last month or two now and i wanted to share my view on the server in its current state. For anyone thats interested i have been playing DD since Dolynick was originally running the server, i also recreated my own DD which failed last year, and have now been playing this one since it started, and now once again after a long break from it. I wanted too share my opinion of the current server with everyone. I have talked about all the things i will bring up with someone on the server so this is not new or a whine its my view. Anyway heres go i have a few things too discuss, these include:

I) Gold
II) Magical Items / Loot
III) Summons
IV) DM Events and XP loss




I) GOLD

Gold has become far too common due to the fact it is VERY easy to accumulate. For Example Zorak decided to head to the raiders, he did so within 10-15 mins coming back with a loot sold value of around 6000 coins. Another example is a few times partying with 4-5 people, i am getting my share of gold at the end 10,000+ this means in gold and items found it must of add too over 40-50,000 in the one trip. Too me that is FAR too much gold earned in one short trip solo OR a Dungeon crawl within a group. People are not willing to sell items to others its a "Trade with items" only theme that seems to of come about now, therefore somewhat making gold useless. Once a player has enough gold to by a house he really has no need to keep accumulating so much gold, Ive heard of players; Not picking up anything unless its worthwhile, i.e. anything magical. One person told me they carry 300,000 on them and lose 50,000 each time they die, almost like its nothing. I remember on the Old DD and also at the beginning of This DD where it was a challenge to even get enough money to buy the Daggerfalls Battle Armour. It would take a good month or so to even be able to acquire enough to buy the Armour.




II) Magical Items / Loot

My feel on the magical environment of this DD is that its FAR too high, I know a few people also agree with me on this one. I remember a party of 6-8 14-20 lvl players would all travel too the fire giants cave or challenge the storm lord in hope of getting a decent elemental weapon. By decent elemental im talking +1 1d6 Element, or perhaps a magical staff or anything really, but were not talking +4 +5s were talking +2 non magical items if that! But now there seems to be no end of staffs, Zorak has 4 on him. Ive seen so many staffs of life or staff of the woodlands recently there just common. The magic to me really seems to also make it FAR more easier for players to dungeon crawl with most ease. After Dolynicks DD came to end, he reopened it for one afternoon for some apparent server testing. A number of people came onto the server i think around 8-10 and we all went to tackle the storm giant lord. He was known for being a pretty tough guy and guess what he killed us all! We were witchin levels of 14-20 also. 5 of us recently went to challenge him and guess what we killed him. Why was it so much easier for us than on the old DD? My theory is that people have allot of magical items that are what i would call "High" magic. +4 - +5 items and with magical properties. Therefore making it easier to kill him.

Here's too more examples:

Zorak and Garok was going through the ettin caves, we were around 14th level and within the rubble of the first room of ettins we found some non ID braces. Now my thought straight away was wow NO ID i wonder if there +2 or +1 with some kind of magic? after ID'ng them on luck of finding a potion of lore i discovered they where +5. Now to me thats insane...

Another example is my Rogue Silvara. Me and two others are slowly creating some new guys and we decided to try are luck at the goblins and even try and take the king! We are 3 lvl 5s so i could see the light at the end of the tunnel already known as death! haha luckily enough though we managed with some tactics and a mage firing everything he had at the king we actually managed to kill him! grats too us! anyway after killing him we looted the area finding a masterworks shield and some masterworks Armour! this was a big YAY from us! as these where usefully for are levels and a guy in the party. We came back through the side we hadn't come through pretty happy with are great findings and killed the remaining spawns, towards the end i grabbed some Armour from a light chest. It was all black and i couldn't ID it so i thought it was some shadow male Armour. Which was a big WOW i wonder what it is, i handed it to are mage he ID'd it as +2 Full Plate Armour. Now i bet your going WTF? because so was I. Finding that kind of item in such a low level area had me dazzled. Im sure nearly everyone will agree with me thats an insane find and i personally believe that -shouldn't- be able to be found by a lvl 5 in a low level area with no TOD. +2 too me seems pretty powerfull for a lvl 5!

My overal view is one that i know is in work but i felt i wanted also explain my findings. I believe the magic myself is far too high here and it has taken a certain element of the things i liked about the old DD so much away by being made easy to come by.



III) Summons.

My personal view on certain summon spells is that they are too powerfull and also are unbalancing certain classes. I respect that its fun to be powerfull but i also feel its unfair too others. Being able to summon a creature that is pretty indestructible, seems to last forever and kills near on anything just seems OTT (Over The Top) to me. These summons i know are only accessible via the Planar binding spells. Now i think that the custom summons are great but i think they just last too long and are making things too easy for mages / wizards.

I also personally don't see how a mage can summon a planar creature far more powerfull than a cleric can in such early levels but perhaps i misunderstand the power of a mage.




IV) DM events and XP loss

Ok this has been sparked to be talked about also by me in a recent event BUT i want the people involved including the DM not too take this as a whine its merely a view and suggestion, I am going to use todays event as an example however.

Now my view is that DM events are pretty scarce on DD lately but seem due to the fact people have RL stuff to deal with and its summer so any kind of DM event is generally worshiped by me. For the first time since the old DD someone had died in a cave and the other person was able to get out. They came back too find a cleric which happened to be my char Zorak. After gathering needed supplies we headed off into the cave. On the way we were involved with a pretty cool i might say piece of RP involving a Banite slaughtering a dozen of the falls solider and performing a ritual. The party decided after summing up the dead bodies and the man that conflict really wasn't wanted and that we had to set are mind of the tasks. On enetering we were ambushed by 2 dozen orogs, pretty cool don't know why but heh, is nice too get stuck in soo to speak. We began working through the cave dodging and setting off certain traps set by the DM. We came to a part of the cave later on that consisted of a normal spawn and also an extra monster the DM had summoned too add too the fight, We got into battle and unluckily died. The monster in my eyes was pretty powerfull although we had almost killed it. It seemed to do a constant 30+ and not missing damage to me with 35 AC, in my views thats one strong monster. It killed us all and i waited too see what would happen next. The DM roleplayed the giant throwing us out of the cave and into the stream that flowed too the falls, we were rescued and put into the temple according to RP. Before respawning i asked the DM can we have OOC res's and ports too the temple, so we didn't have to face a XP loss, i was pretty close to level myself also but that doesn't matter. The DM replied no you can respawn now. I did talk further about this but its irrelevant but i will add the DM did also make a shout afterwards that his intention was not to kill us and was sorry if it seemed harsh.

My view is this: We were going through the cave's that Zorak has done a few times and is pretty confident with but that doesn't mean he can assume will be so easy. It was to be a straight forward, find the person res him get him back too town. A DM has decided he wants to make it more fun and to me i say Rock On! As a result though we all died and where forced to respawn. This -Doesn't- seem fun too me, I understand you wont win everything and thats fair enough, we are not all invincible. It doesn't matter to me if the summon was easy or hard, the fact was this was a DM event with a DMs spawn, and that -was- the thing that killed us all. I feel forcing a person to lose there gained XP too a DM spawn or within a DM event is rather harsh and seemingly unfair. What happened to the friendly DMs who would OOC res you and port you so you didn't lose XP? no one likes loosing it and i don't think its shows a DM to be too friendly. A player actually left the server because being involved in 2 other DM events and being forced to respawn with NO XP replenished I have no idea if it is the same DM nor does it matter but in both events has died both times without there XP being replenished.

I would like to finish with reminding what i started with: This is not a whining post AND this is not directed too anyone personally, these are my own views and thoughts about the current server and i do not want to offend anyone nor disrespect anyone. Please feel free to debate all i say of course and please once again this is not towards ANYONE personally these are my views.

Thanks for reading guys Smile
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PostSubject: Re: My Views On The Current DD   Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:53 pm

I agree with all except the XP replenishment.Regardless , and this is just my opinion , if you die...well you die.If no one was there to rescue you than that's it.Since alot of your opinion was based on the "old DD" that's where I learned that harsh you are dead when dead lesson.If you guys had triumphed you would have GAINED XP, so why does EVERY DM encounter have to be a win/win situation for the players? In my opinion it shouldn't.And considering this post was aimed at how easy the server has become...umm it shouldn't be too hard to gain that xp back should it? :p

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PostSubject: Re: My Views On The Current DD   Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:16 pm

But Dm Encounters shouldn't be Lose/Lose either, as can be the case at times as of late. I won't name any names, but a certain possible forced 'choice' which I have been told I may have to make does have me a bit disgruntled.
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PostSubject: Re: My Views On The Current DD   Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:40 pm

I disagree that it is too easy to get money or power. I am level 9 struggling for money and I have been here long enough to be over 20, especially since im on all day. My most powerfull thing I have is masterwork fullplate. Either I missed the point or it just depends on how good the player is at getting what they want.
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PostSubject: Re: My Views On The Current DD   Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:51 pm

I agree with A Person238. Sure the loot table is set high, but when an adventurer, be they hero or anti-hero faces dangers, their rewards should reflect their dangers. For instance, Roslyn can find good loot in the fire giants, because hell, they can kill her. But if she goes into the Eyrie her challenge rating is far lower, and the loot reflects such. Half the fun (one half being the rp I have with the other players here), is the rewarding feel of going against something like dragons, giants, or powerful undead (for a few examples), and coming out with their swag. Yes, it makes the game a little less challenging, but a high level adventurer is GOING to find good things, it's just common sense. Of course, just my opinion.

DDRP, as for the comment on trade only items, which I assume was meant towards me, certain powerful items (Like the +4 str belt ros traded zorak), are rare and powerful enough that she isn't just going to sell them willy nilly for gold, when she could probably find someone willing to trade her something useful. Hell, Even boulder has shown me items that he told Roslyn "You need to find something worth trading for it."
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PostSubject: Re: My Views On The Current DD   Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:25 pm

**edited**

Apologies. Was not needed.

I agree with the part about the gold/loot/summons.

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PostSubject: Re: My Views On The Current DD   Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:49 pm

The lose/lose comment had nothing to do with what you were planning, and I won't start an arguement here, but how is forcing my character to choose between selling her soul and taking levels in a PRC I have NEVER expressed any interest in or having her best friend and right hand perma deathed, not a lose/lose situation?
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PostSubject: Re: My Views On The Current DD   Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:53 am

operationblade wrote:

I) Gold
II) Magical Items / Loot
III) Summons
IV) DM Events and XP loss

I) GOLD

Gold has become far too common due to the fact it is VERY easy to accumulate...

II) Magical Items / Loot

My feel on the magical environment of this DD is that its FAR too high...

Here's too more examples:

Zorak and Garok was going through the ettin caves, we were around 14th level and within the rubble of the first room of ettins we found some non ID braces. Now my thought straight away was wow NO ID i wonder if there +2 or +1 with some kind of magic? after ID'ng them on luck of finding a potion of lore i discovered they where +5. Now to me thats insane...

III) Summons.

My personal view on certain summon spells is that they are too powerfull...

IV) DM events and XP loss

Ok this has been sparked to be talked about also by me in a recent event BUT i want the people involved including the DM not too take this as a whine its merely a view and suggestion

Thanks for reading guys Smile

I) Yeah, I'm sure many high-level players agree with this one. Gold is very easy to gain, and that is because:
1. You can find over 100gp/a rubble quite often
2. Because of the medium magical items, such as Darksteel armors, Dlarun weapons/armour, [b]+1 echancement 1d4 items
, and the overall easyness of finding +2 items and such from any container at higher lvls.

II) I agree with this one, too, although it can't be fixed just now. The +5 bracers you mentioned we found from the vywern lair, actually, and this find, as far as I know, has nothing to do with daggerdale's loot system. We found the bracers from a vywern corpse and it's the bioware's loottable that spawned them.

III) Summons, hmm.... Summons are WAY too unbalanced in daggerdale. Although the summon creature I-IX suck, a sorcerer lvl 17(?) can use the planar summoning to spawn at least 1. An angel with raise dead and 2. A marut that could defeat almost any lvl 20 melee character by just itself, without mentioning the spells the sorcerer has.
So let me make this clear: Sorcerers can basically play any role in the server, with his pixie to open locks, the killer marut to defeat fire giants or whatsoever and the angel to raise the fallen low lvl character that's just leeching behind to get good xp/gp/loot.
Oh, and I'm not sure about this one, but while a sorcerer summons a marut he gets no difference to the creature spawns, while a ranger controlling a gray render gets fire giant warriors/adepts in every spawn.

IV) I really don't have much to say about this one.

operationblade wrote:
Thanks for reading guys Smile
No, no... Thank you, for starting the topic. It's interesting to see people's opinions about the server.
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PostSubject: Re: My Views On The Current DD   Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:40 pm

A Person238 wrote:
I disagree that it is too easy to get money or power. I am level 9 struggling for money and I have been here long enough to be over 20, especially since im on all day. My most powerfull thing I have is masterwork fullplate. Either I missed the point or it just depends on how good the player is at getting what they want.

In all fairness you have been away with tech difficulties and since i have been playing i havent really seen you o till recently, i am stating what i have found. I will however agree that perhaps this is the case for you becuase my other character who i played -Before- i took my break is of 15th level and had not even a quater of what Zorak has. I am mearly stating my findings since my return too the server. I doubt i am lucky enought saying this too already have 150k plus in gold and a chest with 3 pages of magical items +5 barces +4 a number of +3 weapons and various other magical items. NO i dont powergame every second of the day, but I am finding that items are FAR too easy to aquire and gold is also. I remember a trip to the frostgiant with roslyn and a few others. We managed to aquire so many items i wont even be able to state them all. some examples though... 2 +3 shields, around 4-5 staffs, 2-3 different pieces of armour +2 +3 +4 with SR also. The items are far too easy to aquite. That message was not just at you roslyn this is the general feeling of the server. Gold is far too common you said yourself you have 300k+ gold and nothing to do with it.
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PostSubject: Re: My Views On The Current DD   Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:58 pm

Cerridwyn wrote:
I agree with A Person238. Sure the loot table is set high, but when an adventurer, be they hero or anti-hero faces dangers, their rewards should reflect their dangers. For instance, Roslyn can find good loot in the fire giants, because hell, they can kill her. But if she goes into the Eyrie her challenge rating is far lower, and the loot reflects such. Half the fun (one half being the rp I have with the other players here), is the rewarding feel of going against something like dragons, giants, or powerful undead (for a few examples), and coming out with their swag. Yes, it makes the game a little less challenging, but a high level adventurer is GOING to find good things, it's just common sense. Of course, just my opinion.

A high level will find the items set by the DM and Server creator. This is not controlled within RP and is down too the loot tables. Having items of reward is great but DD was not set to posses such powerfull weapons that do overpower someone. You told me you had a weapon with "3" different types of elemental damage and ALL 1d6. That is insanely high. I always saw DD too be a low-mid magic, I am happy too accept all players will like there own level of magic and findings, my feel is its far too high and for me has taken the whole fun of actually finding a decent weapon. Too me having a magical weapon or item is a privelage, when i starterd on DD origonaly i played my Ranger Randen Sciger, i played him for about 5-6 months thanks to my good friend Logan Icewalker. He had a +1 1d6 Fire bastard sword named "Rose" I dont remember how he got it but i do remember that i set myself a goal of one day aquiring such an item. Randen persued very hard to try and aquire such an item and about 3-4 months down the line he managed to get hold of a +1 1d6 Frost bastard sword. Upon recieving it i remember how great it was too have what seemed to me such a powerfull item. That feel is no longer here and personaly to me it was one of the greatest things about DD. Once again this is just my oppinion of course. I Hope for others to reply to my first post also that havent yet.
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PostSubject: Re: My Views On The Current DD   Sun Jul 19, 2009 1:57 am

Yes, I remember the feeling of finding a +3 longbow at the Skylord - our jaws dropped, it was almost unbelievable! I'd like to have that feeling back, but at this time it just isn't possible. The low-mid loot setting is gone, and I'm sure we all want it back.
Louminator, the guy that did the new loot tables and scripts, has gone missing. He stated that changing the loot setting was "easy", but it isn't. I've had an experienced scripter (rapid55) look at it, to no avail. I'd happily let anyone who's interested, look at it.

Gold and loot in general, have become far too easy to come by. Part of it was my own fault, as the areas I'd built were initially way over-treasured. That has been fixed.

Summons... Well, it's dolynick's settings we're using. The summons are coming from a creature pool, matching your alignment. The time the summon stays has been altered by dolynick in all cases, along with the Greater Planar Binding. Why it is hours instead of rounds, I don't know, but as stated ealier, it is way too powerful, and should be rounds instead of hours summoned.

EXP loss... well, just like the original Daggerdale, there will be no "friendly" raise if all of your party dies at the hand of a DM.
BUT... in special circumstances, aid could be given.

Anyway, keep up the RP, and I'll see you all out there. Smile

-Snottling
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PostSubject: Re: My Views On The Current DD   Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:40 am

I dont care how annoyed this will make you, but snottling sounds like the only one who actually knows what everyone is talking about and everyone else (myself included) is just stating their hopes and dreams. maybe we should just drop this thread here while we have a few logical points raised and little to no outright flame-grade argueing.
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PostSubject: Re: My Views On The Current DD   Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:15 am

^^^^ Posts just like that are the type that cause arguments.Read what you wrote "I DON'T CARE how annoyed this will make you".....*shakes head*
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PostSubject: Re: My Views On The Current DD   Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:50 am

Snottling i will gladly have a look at the lott system, i also have some ideas i want to discuss with you. Im not the great scripter expert but im pretty good at the old problem solving and thats one thing i do well. So ill talk to you in game.
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PostSubject: Re: My Views On The Current DD   Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:05 pm

lol its called a joke kari
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PostSubject: Re: My Views On The Current DD   Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:46 pm

It was inflammatory and counterproductive. The thread was started to inspire a discussion on what others thought of those particular topics regarding the server. And it's done its job very well for the most part. There is no point in locking the thread because it is beneficial to the staff to know what the players think. That's how changes are made. If you don't see it as a good thing any longer, you don't have to read it. But let those who wish to discuss it do so.

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PostSubject: Re: My Views On The Current DD   Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:40 pm

+1 too above. This post is so that all players can express there views on the current server and whether other seem to agree. I can already see a few people agreeing with certain areas that hopefully the DMs can now look at and perhaps look for a soloution to the problem. This wasnt to start a argument between players this is a tool to help DMs like they do for us. I have some ideas myself too some things but untill we can see what areas people feel could be inproved or have a problem with or not might be the case there is no need to offer suggestions yet.
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PostSubject: Re: My Views On The Current DD   Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:15 am

On these 'Gold = Useless' and 'Item for Item trade' bits, I was thinking about this a while back and I think that it would be far more healthy for the in-game economy in Item for Item trade was simply not allowed, or at least discouraged. That would really help gold keeping its value.

If you think about it, you can sell your items for whatever price you want. If you're selling an item, you likely don't need it but someone else might. So you help them out, you gain some extra gold and you can spend that gold when someone else has an item you need. No one can tell you how much (or little) you must sell your item for. That's entirely up to you. If too expensive, no one might buy it. Just like no one will trade with you if no one has an item you want.

So if gold were worth anything, selling your rare items for gold could help you a lot.

And that's my two coppers.

(This is related to the topic of discussion, isn't it? If not, I'd like to put this idea out here anyway! Nyahahah!)
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PostSubject: Re: My Views On The Current DD   Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:43 am

Also being a player from Dolynicks time and the good old DD server. I agree with operationblade. I remember hearing rumor that +3 weapons could be found and with my old char roman kelm I found a +2 sword with 1d4 chaotic dam. I felt like I had found a god item it was sweet. Also on the DM raise thing if you die you die. Can always get the xp back.
As long as the spawn isn't like wow.. holy crap I'm dead. lol Oh and the planar summons are super powerful.

Just sayin that the server needs to be geared down. Makes it a challenge and when you actually get something it feels great. Oh and losing it sucks but that makes the game more relistic. One of the reason I like this server and have never found one even close to as good in my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: My Views On The Current DD   Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:13 pm

Purgatori_Leader69 wrote:

Just sayin that the server needs to be geared down. Makes it a challenge and when you actually get something it feels great. Oh and losing it sucks but that makes the game more relistic.

Yes, it does and we have taken steps towards that. The high loot are now harder to come by, just like on old Daggerdale. A plus three weapon should really give a "wow!" feeling. I hope we'll get that feeling back some fine day, because right now, the server is flooded with high magic gear.
Some would say that a server vault wipe would be good now, but I say no to that.I really dislike wipes, having experienced three wipes on Daggerdale in the past. I'm convinced we would lose several players, too, if a wipe was executed. So, don't worry about that.
Instead, enjoy the server as it is now, with a lower magic setting. I'd like to thank DaggerdaleRP for his adamant work, helping me to figure out the very complicated loot scripts.

Remember it's only a game, and have fun and enjoy your stay at Daggerdale Smile

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PostSubject: Re: My Views On The Current DD   Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:39 pm

Here here...*skulks off muttering*

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PostSubject: Re: My Views On The Current DD   Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:22 pm

I'm probably a bit late in jumping on this one (Since I've been gone) but I remember the old DD stuff too. I even had better stuff on Quel than I do on Valadiren now, though I've seen some amazingly over-powered stuff come from unlikely places- a +5 weapon from the Eyrie (not even past ecklemar's door!) and a set of +8 armor bracers. I prefer the pseudo-low level loot, since it's more interesting to have to go look for better gear, due to previously-expressed reasons within this thread. Val has a few too many staves, but his actual gear isn't the best. He's got like... +1 armor, one of those animal talismans, and a couple other things, not even a belt.
As for summons, mages have clerics overpowered by an insane amount- the basic animal summons are nearly useless again most of our monsters, if they're the same as they used to be.
Gold... it's useful, but someone who is really trying to save it up will do so easily. I prefer to buy items I need, though, rather than trade with things I don't have.

I might edit this and comment on the changes when I get back.
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PostSubject: Re: My Views On The Current DD   Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:49 pm

I finally have a little time to think and type.

I generally enjoy a lower magic server. On the old dd serve, I took pride in the fact that my 18th level rogue used masterwork shortsword and dagger most of his existence.

If everyone elses characters went out adventuring with a stick, I would do the same and enjoy it as much as if my character had a +5 Flaming, Vorpal war axe. As long as there were others to adventure and rp with. Though lately in the mornings, and even last weekend I found myself alone most of the time. That has really disheartened my gaming.......... Sorry, off topic.

High level magical items should hold a certain prestige which I think is not happening currently on the server.

Has there been consideration of a vault wipe?
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PostSubject: Re: My Views On The Current DD   Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:56 am

One point I'd like to make on that note is this...MOST of the bad ass bosses on here that were created by Dolynick have at least +4 dmg. resistance.MW weapons and such will not get the job done when a pc gets bad ass enough him/herself to go face such challenges.High end items don't bother me as so much as people having them.We just need to find a way to stem the flood of such items.

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PostSubject: Re: My Views On The Current DD   Sat Aug 01, 2009 3:44 pm

Think that more so should be looked at is , getting influx of new players. Perhaps doa write up on nwn tavern post. Tell people wqaht the place is like. The strengths and weaknesses. Just takes a few people to add to a few and get closer to 8 or 10 and people just to flow like crazy. Low magic servers are rare in my opinion. The server seeems to level exp at a fairly fast rate. Sure even when i got here a month ago all seen was level 20 folks running about, but then in the next week started to see lower level folks and thought okay nice. Tis hard sometimes when not anyone on but wander aroudn get your bearings but found some interesting roleplay and a nice offer to shape soemthing in the falls so its a start.


Rodon
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